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> Classes - Revamp to current system
Tyrant
post Feb 25 2009, 10:57 AM
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Dransik is starting to morph into a class based system, though it has always been known to be a classless system. But to achieve a balance between the current builds there needs to be some nerfing, buffs and adjustments made. I am going to post some suggestions from the community that I have been provided via PMs, and bug submittions. Please review the information and provide some feedback so we can get things rolling.


============================
Mage
-Well mages do need more resist than most other classes considering their such low hp, but like 50% to all resist ya that's way to damn much for some common items are like every has and can get very easy, maybe 50% if for say got like a orcust robe, and eth shield that are hard items to get.
-So like kaal said these things for starters should be changed.
-Fix the stacking bug with mass healing scrolls.
-Nerf the resistances of robes and sand gear.
make druids be able to get health from mass healing scrolls.
-The attack scrolls should also be easier to use for other people, I'm not gonna point out or even say that some people cheat with them, but I know atleast with 1 version of the pothack sumopoika made along time ago you can use 1 of the hot keys to pot, and the other to click your scroll, which tbh gives a big advantage over ppl who don't have a program and actually have to click pots and the scrolls themself and then click reuse button, then pots again, and try to keep scrolls on the reuse timer, ya that **** is complicated for someone who is legit, not to mention if someone uses that program also uses a auto target they have a even bigger advantage now you probably can't stop the auto target advantage, but you can atleast make it easier for everyone to use scrolls so everyone has alot better of a chance.
-I would suggest a type of magic missle type weapon as well, but ofc with a stutter so you aren't just blasting ppl with scroll and mm at same time while staying on a persons hip for like 500 dmg, but this would require some type of stamina system, maybe make the current hungar system we got so that it effects mage's mage attacks from scrolls and weapon, that they can only melee or use druids when at 0 stamina, and only way to gain stamina is to eat food, basically instead of carrying ammo they would have to carry food with them. Ya this maybe difficult to code as well I dunno, also considering all these attacks would probably do more dmg than bows the stutter I'd suggest be the same as a current 150 dexer.

Bowers
Stutter tbh I could probably live with this its really not that terrible, but it probably should be adjusted just a tad bit to be more balanced.
Dex should play a bigger part in dmg bows do for example someone with 170 dex would hit like 430, compared to a warrior who if they geared for dex as much as possible while still having base 100 con and str could get like 90 dex, would maybe hit 300s.

Warriors
Considering melee weapons are for mostly warriors, ya the few weapons we do have with specials, I agree should be con based, the higher con the more times your likely to hit a special, and a good special at that.
This actually effects all, but I'd say con regen should be increased as well as how much hp con gives, but do not remove the hp from str, there really is no point to that other than only warriors would have the hp advantage, but with that would come problems with other classes who would suffer a major nerf in hp, and not to mention this aint damn AE, now yall say well how much giving more hp for con help, sam made a good suggestion a few months back about how they could do the extra hp from con, although I might be quite diffcult to code in, but for those who didn't read his idea, his idea was something like this...

10-30 con 5hp each
31-60 con 6hp each
61-90 con 7hp each
91-120 con 8hp each
121-150 con 9hp each
151-180 con 10hp each
181-190 con 11hp each

I don't quite remeber his exact idea, and you don't even have to go by those exact amounts, I was just throwing some sorta idea together for people to think about.

Another suggestion which would mainly effect bowers, maybe warriors to though, but kinda like how bows should be, mage skills should be the same, which is the more dex and more armor you have the more you should be able to block attacks, but also gotta account for shields playing a part in helping block as well, I'd probably also go as far to say maybe dex should give more armor, so since bower sacrifices his shield to use a bow, the armor from dex should help make up for it a little bit, ofc not completely make up for it. Which I could get more into depth as to just make dex give better chance of not actually blocking the attack cause archers don't really block arrows anyway they use their agility to move around and avoid getting hit, but after all this is dransik and this is a classic fan based game, which tbh doesn't really need those unnecessary changes, so I just stick to the dex giving more armor to help block attacks.

Now some of you might say hell no cause then a dexer in a rune set would be 1 of the best classes to use cause his high armor would be best against a mage or archer, you also gotta take in account that his hp is lower than a warriors, so actually would probably get demolished by a warrior of the same lvl except for r set hitting 1k, but not everyone has a rune set, and like that's really gonna matter that much anyway, should be counting on your actual pvp and not some god like set. Now I did say earlyer removing hp from str probably wouldn't be a good suggestion, but you could test it out with these changes and see how you think it would work out, but I'm not gonna suggest it, although doing such would make use for other type builds.

Now these are just different suggestions, take what ya like or don't like w/e.



Forgot to add in some suggestions about armors.

Well basically Rune Set is a set that all classes should be able to use, and BK Set is a warrior set. Well this has been discussed before probably, but tbh BK pieces are easier to get if people actually hunt BKs, but there is more rune pieces in game, specially since more people hunt hell than anything anyway, but I suggest Rune Set to be buffed up more as in maybe R Helm give 30 int, and give a little bit of resist to all, R Legs maybe buffed up to 30 dex, maybe more, but 30 dex would probably be good enough cause that would more than give them a good amount of high armor, R Plate buffed to 40 con, Gaunts buffed to 30 Str, R Shield well it seems pretty decent now I'd say, and also raise the level requirement to say 80 or so. I say these suggestions cause Rune Set is suppose to be the best set, and a all around set that any class can wear and would be a use to other than its hitting 1k dmg, how these buffs would effect each class is The Helm which is int and gives resist damn good for a mage, The Legs which give high in dex and armor which are in need for a Dexer, or if you perfer a dex type mage the dex would help with your magery and make them more accurate, then you got the Plate and Gaunts were mostly are good for warriors, then ofc you got the Shield which comes in good use for all classes, the resist for mages, the high armor for warriors, and dexers if their not wanting to use bow at the time.

Now you got the BK Set which is a Warrior Set, (should be bumped up in req. by 10 con and 10 lvls, ,as in 70 con and lvl 70)shield should be buffed other than that I'd probably say its a alright set gives 300 extra hp, has a decent weapon, puts up a good fight against a correct rune set. This makes a good set for warriors who don't have a rune set with my suggested updates to rune set, this set would give like 40 more hp, but also this set gives alot more con, which actually gives a warrior alot more hp than a rune set user.

Actually I think i'd suggest maybe both set weapons be adjusted the BK Set weapon should be nerfed to speed 7, buff the minimum dmg, but keep the high dmg on it, and also maybe add some sorta special that would be con based.

Rune Sword buff the minimum dmg.
s to maybe help balance out these 2 sets according to classes.
Now also take in account there are harder weapons out there to get and stronger such as dreadnought blade, but these are just a few suggestion

I also vote Great Blade Of Anubis be adjusted which I suggested these few suggestions months back that it is not only pointless, but also stupid to have 2 super LB weapons (GBOA and SoT) that do fire dmg, and 2 super LB weapons that do Disease dmg, my idea is is to change GBOA to lighting dmg for starters, make Orcust drop SoT instead of dreadnought blade, and change dreadnought blade to a poison weapon instead of disease and drop of of nycadaemon.

Also from a few recent fights I've currently had dc since the new pot stutter, to be honest have just pissed me off, that's as nice as I can get, I say that cause I'm a warrior so I have to get close to hit people, and if I have to pot with this long pot stutter I get beaten more than any other class, so ya basically a warrior is 100% screwed it out numbered cause of the pot stutter, this pot stutter needs to be set back to its .2, apparently it was said it was .2, but compared to when bows were .2, and compared to when everytime I stutter my weap does swing which is about only good thing cause the timer is the same as my weapon speed which is a speed 4 weapon, so ya I highly doubt that the current speed is .2, and if it is well you need to atleast knock it down by .1 to see how well that does.
===============================

AGAIN. Seriously now. Have CON give 10 health points instead of 5. Because the health point difference between a level 100 mage/bower from a level 100 warrior is 400 health points difference and that's pathetic because that's only one extra hit difference. Have con give more health points. and decrease this scroll healing, they heal for 500-600, when they should heal 200-300.
================================


Alright, considering classes are starting to become more balanced in ways... I think you should try to advance the idea of classes. I personally believe that real "Mages" don't have the ability to wield an Axe or Large Blade for real, and "Archers" don't have this ability either. Going in detail would really open up the balance and make classes more balanced.
So here's my idea:
Why not put a certain stat requirement (Dex, Str, Con, Int) on each weapon in the game? Make it so a real 100 INT and STR Mage cannot wear something like a Poison and/or Vorpal Axe.
So basically, make it so Mages (providing they're at 100 INT) are easily aloud all Polearms, Blunt Weapons.
Make it so Archers (providing they're at 100 DEX) are easily aloud all Long Bows, Heavy Crossbows, Throw Weapons, Small Blades, Large Blades (with extentions such as 65 STR on the Large Blades)
Make it so Warriors (providing they're at 100 CON and/or STR) are easily aloud all Axes, Large Blades.
For Example:
Vorpal Axe - Level Requirement: 55 Axes, 80 Constitution. (Normally a Warrior Class Weapon)
Poison Axe - Level Requirement: 60 Axes, 80 Constitution. (Normally a Warrior Class Weapon)
Water Axe - Level Requirement: 39 Axes, 35 Constitution. (Normally a Warrior Class Weapon)
Ice Sword - Level Requirement: 70 Large Blades, 65 Strength. (Normally a Warrior/Archer Class Weapon)
Wakizashi - Level Requirement: 83 Large Blades, 70 Strength. (Normally a Warrior/Archer Class Weapon)
Flaming Sword - Level Requirement: 55 Large Blades, 50 Strength. (Normally a Warrior/Archer Class Weapon)
Spear of Destiny - Level Requirement: 85 Polearms, 75 Intelligence. (Normally a Mage Class Weapon)
Blood Trident - Level Requirement: 80 Polearms, 80 Intelligence. (Normally a Mage Class Weapon)
Gold Fire Bow - Level Requirement: 45 Long Bows, 75 Dexterity. (Normally an Archer Class Weapon)
Gold Air Bow - Level Requirement: 36 Long Bows, 55 Dexterity. (Normally an Archer Class Weapon)
Gold Water Bow - Level Requirement: 21 Long Bows, 25 Dexterity. (Normally an Archer Class Weapon)

*Note* The Gold Water Bow would still allow duel-wielding to occur. Simply having 5 Dexterity and putting a Helm of Agility on... Making your DEX: 5 (25) and allowing more duel-wielding.

Now I gave you a few examples just so you fully understood my point. You still would need Heavy Crossbows, Small Blades, Blunt Weapons etc. But now with making the "Class Stat Requirement" on each weapon, it would open up and make the classes a lot more even. This would make it so Mages still could have the powerful druids and scrolls, but they're using a Mage-type weapon. So they can't run around in a Poison Axe and be a Mage/Warrior. That's not likely. But, Small Blades have to have a DEX requirement because Archers normally would duel-wield using a dagger and a bow. Like in Lord of the Rings. He'd use the bow, but he would always have his little daggers. And Warriors are still aloud their basic weapons and a chance to duel-wield a not so strong bow. No human can master the arts of bowing and meleeing in the real world. But, they can master the meleeing and have a small bow (Gold Water Bow) as a back-up.
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KaaLimaTo
post Feb 25 2009, 11:08 AM
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"how these buffs would effect each class is The Helm which is int and gives resist damn good for a mage,"

How could INT give more resist?

I think all these lvl restrictions on gear, if anything, should be lowered not raised. Generally.


"Actually I think i'd suggest maybe both set weapons be adjusted the BK Set weapon should be nerfed to speed 7, buff the minimum dmg, but keep the high dmg on it, and also maybe add some sorta special that would be con based."

This weapon would SUCK if only the minimum damage was raised and maximum kept. If you nerf the speed then you need to buff up the DPS to be abit lower than on RS.

"Rune Sword buff the minimum dmg."

I agree, but then if you buff the minimum DMG, make sure you buff the minimum DMG of anubis blade also. I think GBOA should be superior compared to any other weapon (except dreadnought blade). Make it Magical DMG. It would destroy mages :). At the moment the only warrior weapon with magical DMG is Blade of Light.

I think the mass healing scroll stutter should be longer, and potion stutter should stay as it is.

"Have CON give 10 health points instead of 5"

10 points would be too superior. My suggestion is 7 points.

"and decrease this scroll healing, they heal for 500-600, when they should heal 200-300."

Even with 120 INT, you do pretty often heal for 300's. In my opinion the only changes to scrolls should be made are which I've already mentioned in this post and the post above.




I think first thing to make this game more interesting and more free to build up the build you want, would be taking off the 100 STAT cap, so you could put 200 points to CON if you wanted.



Other thing I wanted to point out would be:

Make the weapons you want mages to wield, the weapons you want archers to wield, the weapons you want warrior wield deal more DMG to the target when wielding the weapon of his own class but don't make any restrictions like CON requirements. So the more you have DEX the more you shoot with a bow and the more you hit with a dagger. And if you have your orbs in CON the more you have CON the more you hit with an axe. Obviously when a warrior would be using a bow he would deal less damage than an archer then.


If all the other skills would also give more DMG with the STR, STR definitely should be modified somehow. It could still give more DMG..
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Dibbe
post Feb 25 2009, 11:33 AM
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bad idea.
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kylreasdw
post Feb 25 2009, 11:47 AM
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By doing that we are No longer player Dransik ... why not call this AE 2 or AE Version 101

By doing all this Dransik is no lo9nger dransik and it Not fun to play any more .. all this studder for EVEYTHING.... eveyone HATES studder Studder kills game this is a 2d game 2d game and studder = BAD


if all that starts coe in to dransik im gonna look for a new game or just move to lothgar.com

I also vote Great Blade Of Anubis be adjusted which I suggested these few suggestions months back that it is not only pointless, but also stupid to have 2 super LB weapons (GBOA and SoT) that do fire dmg, and 2 super LB weapons that do Disease dmg, my idea is is to change GBOA to lighting dmg for starters, make Orcust drop SoT instead of dreadnought blade, and change dreadnought blade to a poison weapon instead of disease and drop of of nycadaemon.

meaning Velsiena will never Have a Sot or Dark sword or any power weps .. if u made it that we could NEVER of moved items from mainlands to vels .. the best wep here would be a fire axe .... that isent really fair ... for people that dont like PVP we get punnshed from getting good items such as WW skin runes BKs Sots All the boss weps that drop we dont even have a Boss....we have been getting hard core punnshed for beeing here

this is why i was wanting a 2ed server such as DR dransik revalosion make it the OLD dransik NON PVP or something for people that HATE all the new changes and put a toggle switch .. u turn on PVP u got 2 swords next to ur name u turn it OFF u got a halo next to ur name .. so if u wanna pvp u can but if u wanna hunt with out getting Pked u can do as well
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KaaLimaTo
post Feb 25 2009, 12:14 PM
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Kyle, your post don't belong to this thread. All you're doing is whining what vels has or doesn't have. There's a stickied topic for that already.

Well, neither does mine but I was just trying to make sure that the power weapons don't get screwed :P
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KaaLimaTo
post Feb 25 2009, 12:20 PM
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One aspect of classes which should be looked into is PvE. At the moment Mages can hunt for a long time with full stack of scrolls in their backpack, warriors or archers can't. I think how much warriors regenerate health should be buffed, then they would be able to hunt longer. Also healing potions could weight 20% less.
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DWC Arbiter
post Feb 25 2009, 12:21 PM
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Yes, please do try to stay on topic. This thread is about adding elements to the game that would differentiate between the three character classes. If you don't like what's been posted, please say why. A post that says, "Bad idea," isn't particularly helpful. The Tyrant's first post contained many, many suggestions that he's received - which of these is a bad idea? Or is the whole idea of differentiating between classes a bad idea? If that's the case, then why? Be constructive, please!
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Vetu
post Feb 25 2009, 12:31 PM
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Can you please even spell my nick right?
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Sliikki
post Feb 25 2009, 12:35 PM
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If you are planning that big differences between classes, at least give us a free orb reset so we can choose what to go into. In my eyes this is just a plan to get more money.
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Makron
post Feb 25 2009, 12:58 PM
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I don't want to play KaaLisik.
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Shadowsoul
post Feb 25 2009, 01:34 PM
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Ok here we go, first and foremost, if you ever want to be able to achieve balance, the bugs with key aspects of a class need to be fixed i.e mage scrolls.

Lets start with the stats, what should each do? Well each build these days is based around 100 str + 100 of one of the other 3 stats, for warrior, archer and mage.

Currently
-----------
Str - 3 weight per point, 0.01 dmg multiplier per point on all weapons, 2 hp per point.
Con - 5 hp per point, 1 hp regen per 5 points, some poison disease/resistance (no idea about the actual figures)
Dex - 1 armor point per 5 points, affects weapon accuracy somehow, reduces stutter time on bows at certain intervals.
Int - Boosts effectiveness of magey stuff, allows you to equip mage gear.

Proposed System
--------------------
Str - 3 weight per point, 0.02 dmg multiplier per point on melee weapons
Con - 8 hp per point, 1 hp regen per 2 points, poison/disease resistance, large effect on frequency and power of weapon effects.
Dex - 1 armor point per 2 points, increases weapon accuracy, 0.02 dmg multiplier per point on ranged weapons, reduces stutter time (see below).
Int - Boosts effectiveness of magey stuff (exact figures can be done later).

Justification
-------------
Strength remains a universal stat, useful to all classes, but no longer completely necessary to max, allowing for hybrid builds. Con is now an important stat for everyone, hugely increases survivability, and has a direct effect on melee damage output, obviously most important on warriors. Dex is now THE archer stat, helps every element of bowing, necessary if you want to be efficient from a distance. Now can be the primary stat for archers, maxed even before strength. Int is still the mage stat obviously, depending on how scrolls are balanced can probably become the primary stat for pure mages.

Creates more variation between players, find the combination that works for you, instead of having to follow set builds.

Dex Stutter
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0-19 - 1.8s
20-39 - 1.6s
40-59 - 1.4s
60-79 - 1.2s
80-99 - 1s
100-149 - 0.8s
150-169 - 0.6s
170 - 0.4s

Has to be in multiples of 0.2s due to dransik's clock system.

Equipment
------------
Mage gear should keep it's high resistance, but have low ac, say average about 120 with a full set, with higher end stuff hitting about 150.

More weapons should have special effects, higher end ones can be given con requirements.

Armor should play a bigger part in battles, with bows missing alot on 220+ armor ratings even with high dex, but hitting most of the time on anything under about 150.

Runeset minimum should be buffed to 170 base, requirement on the sword only should be changed to lvl 70. Everything else can be equipped at 60.

BK set should have a con requirement on the weapon (70?), with a nice special effect.

All i can think of right now.

General use items should be kept as they are, if you really want a stronger potion, make one that heals 130-200 at 10k a pop, although i see this as being quite unnecessary.

I'm sure there was more i wanted to say, i'll add stuff later.


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Kelvor
post Feb 25 2009, 01:34 PM
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I also think that differentiating between classes is a bad idea. It just won't be Dransik anymore.

The thing about Dransik is that players can use EVERY item in the game. Just because you became a warrior, it doesn't mean that you have to miss out on the fun of using a bow for the final hit on someone. Just because you became a mage, it doesn't mean that you have to miss out on the fun of fast-action melee PvP.

Anyway I'm tired of arguing my points. Just do whatever you want with the game and let people see how much their "dream ideas" suck with their own eyes.

EDIT: I think the reason why most players don't respond to these suggestion topics is because they are also tired of arguing their points. We just want to play the game, not have to constantly fight against the tidal wave of WoW-like ideas from 14 year-olds.
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Legenda
post Feb 25 2009, 02:01 PM
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I suggest that you put the game as it was! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Tyrant
post Feb 25 2009, 02:19 PM
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I only put this post up to get the feedback from the community. Players complain about the imbalance of the game, using a class system is one tool to balancing combat.

All this thread is for to get the community feedback of it being a good idea or bad idea. If too many people hate it, then it will be killed. If there is good suggestions and a common ground, then we can see what we can do. I'm not building this game around one persons suggestions, but I will commit to ideas from a group of players that constructively organize a good idea that is easy to implement.
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Tyrant
post Feb 25 2009, 02:23 PM
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Dexterity and how it could be used for "Fighters"

High dexterity would provide bonus to AC when a shield is equipped. "Archers" already have a bonus on stutter step when using bows, with higher dexterity. But I could try and balance out fighters vs archers with a higher AC bonus. And if two fighters were trying to fight eachother, it would just make the battle longer, that could be a bad thing or a good thing. But now we have this system of magic for "mages", so how could we keep in mind for the mages dealing with the Fighters getting a increase to AC.

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Armadyl
post Feb 25 2009, 02:26 PM
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Bad idea imo, classes are fine as they are, just need to rework the attack scrolls and nerf the mass healing scrolls.
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Lord Nate
post Feb 25 2009, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE(Armadyl @ Feb 25 2009, 02:26 PM) *
Bad idea imo, classes are fine as they are, just need to rework the attack scrolls and nerf the mass healing scrolls.

Classes are NOT fine. Warriors need more power, Mages need less healing power (not to much less) bowers need more "Bow power" so they don't miss every damn shot.
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Kelvor
post Feb 25 2009, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE(Lord Nate @ Feb 25 2009, 02:33 PM) *
Classes are NOT fine. Warriors need more power, Mages need less healing power (not to much less) bowers need more "Bow power" so they don't miss every damn shot.


Quick question. Why do mages "need less healing power"? On my own with 140 int (and without the chain-heal stack bug), I heal for 300-600 with mass healing scrolls. I also suffer a cool-down and am unable to double-click anything until the cool-down finishes. During this time I am even unable to open bodies and cure myself from poison and disease. Used in the wrong situation leads to instant death (once you use it to heal yourself, you're completely vulnerable to any extra hits you take).

In the same time it takes me to use a scroll to heal myself for a maximum of 600 hp (or around there), I could use 5 or 6 GHPs and not be locked out of bodies etc. The only benefit to mass healing scrolls is that you can carry more, heal other people, and have less of a stutter (in exchange for a longer cool-down).

Who would pay 3k for a mass healing scroll that does 300 hp heals more often at 140 int? I wouldn't.

And on the subject of archers, I think missing is the least of their problems. They can only fire maybe 3 shots with 170 dex before their target is off their screen. This forces archers to team up with a mob because there's no way in hell they'd be able to take someone down on their own.
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Shadowsoul
post Feb 25 2009, 03:12 PM
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i'm yet to see an issue posted which my suggestion doesn't sort
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bbor
post Feb 25 2009, 03:19 PM
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I was thinking one thing about the Stat Requirement on certain weapons. The main weapons each class gets needs to be clarified I believe...
Archers (If 100 DEX) - They receive the easy ability to equip all Long Bows, Heavy Crossbows, Throw Weapons, and Small Blades.
Mages (If 100 INT) - They receive the easy ability to equip all Blunt Weapons, and Polearms. (Blunts because they need one more choice of weapon)
Warriors (If 100 CON) - They receive the easy ability to equip all Axes, some Large Blades.
Large Blade skill should be based on medium-high STR, and low-medium CON.
For Example:
Ice Sword - Large Blade Skill of 70, 65 STR, and 35 CON. (This would make it so a mage/archer needs to wear good gear to equip it)
Flaming Sword - Large Blade Skill of 55, 40 STR, and 25 CON.
Just simply add this idea on with TT's idea on the new Stat Requirement Idea. I think it'll stop people from flaming about good gear, and it will also make it so each class has a balance and can equip Weapons of their class.
Also, have NO Stat Requirement on the power sets (Banished Knight and Rune Set) because Archers right now have worked very hard to achieve the ability to own the set and equip it. And people that worked for it for years and years need to have the ability to equip it now. Still allow all of the other weapons to have requirements minus the Rune Sword and Vengeance Hammer so everyone can equip the best set and pay the price if they drop it. Thanks.
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18th October 2019 - 04:34 PM