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> Weapons Rebalancing, A new enterprise
JonnyH
post Mar 9 2009, 03:21 PM
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As many of you know, the Armour in Dransik was recently rebalanced (to some degree). This process is not yet finished, but it is at least begun - and I do still welcome further input on Armour rebalancing. Akin to that process, already begun, it is time to take a look at the weapons in Dransik. What can people suggest about balancing out the weapons? Go for things that might not be quite as obvious as "I don't get any Mage Weapons experience when I use a weapon that does AoE damage!" Clearly, this needs to be fixed.

So, what I'm wondering about are things like this: there are lots of swords that do very similar damage, but do different elemental damage. Should some of them be buffed, to make them better than the others? If so, why the ones you think and not the others? Or, should there be other Fire/Acid/Cold weapons added to the game, with lower lvl requirements than the current ones, that could be crafted from Thrallenite/Brimidian/Tundrite ores?

What are people looking for, as far as balancing out the weapons system? Let me know, and I'll try to be fair in my considerations.

The Tenth Avenger
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KaaLimaTo
post Mar 9 2009, 03:32 PM
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Air Axe, Fire Axe and Sword Of Affliction should be buffed just because of their rarity.
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iplaydransik
post Mar 9 2009, 04:13 PM
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DON'T CHANGE WEAPONS
DON'T CHANGE WEAPONS
DON'T CHANGE WEAPONS
DON'T CHANGE WEAPONS
There fine, just add more weapons.
In fact don't even add more, there perfectly balanced as they are. Who has asked for these changes?
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Swifty
post Mar 9 2009, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE(KaaLimaTo @ Mar 9 2009, 03:32 PM) *
Air Axe, Fire Axe and Sword Of Affliction should be buffed just because of their rarity.


and Soul Stealer.

That is all.

Don't **** with the rest. For goodness sake, don't **** with the rest.
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CloudmStrife
post Mar 9 2009, 07:14 PM
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Air Axe needs improved..
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JonnyH
post Mar 9 2009, 07:56 PM
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I'm not sure what iplaydransik means, when he says "Who has asked for these changes?" What changes is he referring to? I'm trying to explore what unbalances there might be in the weapons system. No "changes" had even been listed yet, technically - and he's already opposed to them? Well, if he's really opposed to the "no changes" that had already been decided on, then he'll be pleased if there are some changes - I suppose.

What I'm seeing so far, that looks reasonable, is that the Air Axe needs to be buffed. That looks reasonable, because it's been pointed out elsewhere that the Earth Axe is pretty much equal to the Air Axe - where the Air Axe has always supposed to have been better than the Earth (don't argue this point with me - the stone weapons are supposed to be increasingly powerful in the following order: water, earth, air, fire). I'm not sure about the request for a buff on the Fire Axe - as I see it, it's plenty powerful as it it - and hardly rare (compared to, say, the Air Axe, at any rate). Give me more feedback on the Fire Axe buff, if you really feel it needs to be done.

Further, the Soul Stealer and Sword of Affliction buffs look reasonable (so far). They are rare weapons, it's true.

Keep in mind that this means nothing is decided, and that I'm not rushing this rebalancing. Keep putting stuff in this thread!

The Tenth Avenger
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Swifty
post Mar 9 2009, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE(JonnyH @ Mar 9 2009, 07:56 PM) *
I'm not sure what iplaydransik means, when he says "Who has asked for these changes?" What changes is he referring to? I'm trying to explore what unbalances there might be in the weapons system. No "changes" had even been listed yet, technically - and he's already opposed to them? Well, if he's really opposed to the "no changes" that had already been decided on, then he'll be pleased if there are some changes - I suppose.

What I'm seeing so far, that looks reasonable, is that the Air Axe needs to be buffed. That looks reasonable, because it's been pointed out elsewhere that the Earth Axe is pretty much equal to the Air Axe - where the Air Axe has always supposed to have been better than the Earth (don't argue this point with me - the stone weapons are supposed to be increasingly powerful in the following order: water, earth, air, fire). I'm not sure about the request for a buff on the Fire Axe - as I see it, it's plenty powerful as it it - and hardly rare (compared to, say, the Air Axe, at any rate). Give me more feedback on the Fire Axe buff, if you really feel it needs to be done.

Further, the Soul Stealer and Sword of Affliction buffs look reasonable (so far). They are rare weapons, it's true.

Keep in mind that this means nothing is decided, and that I'm not rushing this rebalancing. Keep putting stuff in this thread!

The Tenth Avenger


You play Velsinea. We play Mainlands.

A 50m SOD is better in pvp then a 500m Fire Axe.

No, SOD does not deserve a nerf.

Yes, a Fire Axe does deserve a buff. Add 35 STR to the Fire Axe, that will give it extra damage and other incentives to using it.

AA needs upped to about what Fire Axe currently has.
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acrytex
post Mar 9 2009, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE(Swifty @ Mar 9 2009, 09:04 PM) *
QUOTE(JonnyH @ Mar 9 2009, 07:56 PM) *
I'm not sure what iplaydransik means, when he says "Who has asked for these changes?" What changes is he referring to? I'm trying to explore what unbalances there might be in the weapons system. No "changes" had even been listed yet, technically - and he's already opposed to them? Well, if he's really opposed to the "no changes" that had already been decided on, then he'll be pleased if there are some changes - I suppose.

What I'm seeing so far, that looks reasonable, is that the Air Axe needs to be buffed. That looks reasonable, because it's been pointed out elsewhere that the Earth Axe is pretty much equal to the Air Axe - where the Air Axe has always supposed to have been better than the Earth (don't argue this point with me - the stone weapons are supposed to be increasingly powerful in the following order: water, earth, air, fire). I'm not sure about the request for a buff on the Fire Axe - as I see it, it's plenty powerful as it it - and hardly rare (compared to, say, the Air Axe, at any rate). Give me more feedback on the Fire Axe buff, if you really feel it needs to be done.

Further, the Soul Stealer and Sword of Affliction buffs look reasonable (so far). They are rare weapons, it's true.

Keep in mind that this means nothing is decided, and that I'm not rushing this rebalancing. Keep putting stuff in this thread!

The Tenth Avenger


You play Velsinea. We play Mainlands.

A 50m SOD is better in pvp then a 500m Fire Axe.

No, SOD does not deserve a nerf.

Yes, a Fire Axe does deserve a buff. Add 35 STR to the Fire Axe, that will give it extra damage and other incentives to using it.

AA needs upped to about what Fire Axe currently has.

Soulstealer is a very weak weapon. It is to rare and doesn't do enough damage to be better than a vorpal or an icer.

Sword of Affliction is in the same hole too.
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Birnical
post Mar 9 2009, 10:13 PM
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TTA, I do not think you should buff any weapons. I think you should just nerf the commonly used weapons that are very common, and extremely powerful.

Poison Axe is a really cheap item, but it is very powerful due to the fact that Poison has a better chance to proc then a Disease and the damage of it is relatively even with all the other weapons.

Same thing with an Ice sword, it is an extremely common item and it is used in PvP very often because it is 5m and does a little bit less damage then a Fire Axe which is 500m today.

I think Poison Axe should be on the same scale as Poison Blade and Poison Dagger, utterly useless and never hits above 150.

Then, the 50m Spear of Destiny is going to be more powerful then the Poison Axe.

Air Axe is tricky, because if you buff it then it will do as much damage as a Fire Axe, and that is just a contradiction in the stone balance. Water<Earth<Air<Fire.

Actually, I never seen anyone use an Earth Axe, I am uncertain of it's potential.

Anyways, if a Poison Axe and Ice Sword is slightly nerfed, then the weapons like SOD, FA, AA, Waki, EPH, and so forth will be more useful because their damage won't be comparable to the PA/Ice Sword which is the case already.

I think it is problematic that Serpent Staff is magical damage, and Serpent Sword is Acid Damage, either make both Acid or make both Magical.

Swifty, it's funny that your comparing 500m FA to 50m SOD... granted that you run around with a scroll that is worth 1,000gold that does more consistent damage then a fire bow/fire xbow(500m)

If Ice Sword is going to be severely nerfed, it might not be a bad idea to introduce a weapon that is going to be doing slightly more damage then the current Ice Sword since it is the best weapon to use to hunt for the best items in the game...

Despite the idiotic prices, vorpal axe is the 2nd most common item in the game, so it should be slightly nerfed.

I think you should try slightly nerfing these three weapons, and results will probably be that players will no longer PvP with those items since they are as useless as the Poison Blade/Poison Dagger which players no longer use because Poison Axe and Icer is way better.


Poison Axe min45 max85 should be reduced to min 30 max 60

The Poison Blade is min15 max38 speed 4
The Posion Dagger is min18 max50 speed 3

The rest of the poison weapons are relatively ****** for either low damage or low damage slow speed, except SOD which is a good weapon for a komodan race players from what they tell me.

The Ice sword is 45 95 It should be 40 80

Waki is 55 90 so already Ice Sword hits harder then a Waki, but less consistent damage since the waki has 10 more on the min.

Serpent Sword 50 90 same thing...

And so on, I am looking at the numbers at the drunksick.com website, it is all there...

Hmm according to the site AA is speed 5? it should definitely be speed 4, because water axe, earth, and fire are speed 4...

Also Vorpal Axe is 30 90 I think it should be 30 80

Also for the Bows/Xbows, I think the gap between the min and the max should be reduced by either increasing the min or decreasing the max and increasing the min.

A GFB does 132-308 damage with 140 str (According to the numbers on the website)
GAB does 110-264
GEB 79-220
Assasin's Bow 97-242
GWB 57-176

It would be more sensible for a GFB to do 225-300 or 225-275

and so forth.
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Swifty
post Mar 9 2009, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE(Birnical @ Mar 9 2009, 10:13 PM) *
TTA, I do not think you should buff any weapons. I think you should just nerf the commonly used weapons that are very common, and extremely powerful.

Poison Axe is a really cheap item, but it is very powerful due to the fact that Poison has a better chance to proc then a Disease and the damage of it is relatively even with all the other weapons.

Same thing with an Ice sword, it is an extremely common item and it is used in PvP very often because it is 5m and does a little bit less damage then a Fire Axe which is 500m today.

I think Poison Axe should be on the same scale as Poison Blade and Poison Dagger, utterly useless and never hits above 150.

Then, the 50m Spear of Destiny is going to be more powerful then the Poison Axe.

Air Axe is tricky, because if you buff it then it will do as much damage as a Fire Axe, and that is just a contradiction in the stone balance. Water<Earth<Air<Fire.

Actually, I never seen anyone use an Earth Axe, I am uncertain of it's potential.

Anyways, if a Poison Axe and Ice Sword is slightly nerfed, then the weapons like SOD, FA, AA, Waki, EPH, and so forth will be more useful because their damage won't be comparable to the PA/Ice Sword which is the case already.

I think it is problematic that Serpent Staff is magical damage, and Serpent Sword is Acid Damage, either make both Acid or make both Magical.

Swifty, it's funny that your comparing 500m FA to 50m SOD... granted that you run around with a scroll that is worth 1,000gold that does more consistent damage then a fire bow/fire xbow(500m)

If Ice Sword is going to be severely nerfed, it might not be a bad idea to introduce a weapon that is going to be doing slightly more damage then the current Ice Sword since it is the best weapon to use to hunt for the best items in the game...

Despite the idiotic prices, vorpal axe is the 2nd most common item in the game, so it should be slightly nerfed.

I think you should try slightly nerfing these three weapons, and results will probably be that players will no longer PvP with those items since they are as useless as the Poison Blade/Poison Dagger which players no longer use because Poison Axe and Icer is way better.


Poison Axe min45 max85 should be reduced to min 30 max 60

The Poison Blade is min15 max38 speed 4
The Posion Dagger is min18 max50 speed 3

The rest of the poison weapons are relatively ****** for either low damage or low damage slow speed, except SOD which is a good weapon for a komodan race players from what they tell me.

The Ice sword is 45 95 It should be 40 80

Waki is 55 90 so already Ice Sword hits harder then a Waki, but less consistent damage since the waki has 10 more on the min.

Serpent Sword 50 90 same thing...

And so on, I am looking at the numbers at the drunksick.com website, it is all there...

Hmm according to the site AA is speed 5? it should definitely be speed 4, because water axe, earth, and fire are speed 4...

Also Vorpal Axe is 30 90 I think it should be 30 80

Also for the Bows/Xbows, I think the gap between the min and the max should be reduced by either increasing the min or decreasing the max and increasing the min.

A GFB does 132-308 damage with 140 str (According to the numbers on the website)
GAB does 110-264
GEB 79-220
Assasin's Bow 97-242
GWB 57-176

It would be more sensible for a GFB to do 225-300 or 225-275

and so forth.


Ignore this moron, he honestly has no ******* idea what would be good for the game.

You want to nerf weapons? What the ****? The PvP in this games already getting slow considering I can run around with ghps and outheal half the game chasing me with melee considering how bad you all are -- and now you want to nerf damage of the weapons people use ontop of already having it reduced by 30% from mage equipment and other resistances? lmfao.

The weapons don't need nerfed. If you don't want a PA to hit you so hard, PUT GREEN GEAR ON. If you don't want a icer to hit you so hard, PUT FROSTS ON.

But hey, you know, we all prefer to use a 100k +5 Sword instead of a Poison Axe considering your suggesting making them do the same damage right?

Suck it the **** up and stop giving retarded suggestions.

Modifying Serpent Staff to acid damage would completely defy the whole purpose behind using it. If you wanted your damage to be able to be mitigated, you may as ******* well use a SoD and be able to poison people considering they do the same exact maximum end damage. By all means, make Serpent Sword a magical damage weapon, that may get it actually used, but making the staff acid just makes it another useless weapon.

AA needs upped to current FA damage.
FA needs given a bit more damage and like 35 Strength to it to actually give it a purpose
SStealer needs its damage upped
SoA needs its damage and proc damage upped

and last but not least

Birnical needs ignored as his suggestions suck donkeyballs.


EDIT:

Hammer of Flames needs buffed aswell. Currently theres no purpose to using it except to max your blunts, considering its slower then SoD and doesnt do ****all more damage.
Possibly even Blood Trident needs a damage buff aswell considering in respect to a SoD it is also useless. That, or as an alternative to buffing the damage and making the gear hit rediculously hard, give Blood Trident like a 20-30 CON bonus to give more incentive to use it. Not all incentives have to be damage.
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Birnical
post Mar 9 2009, 11:00 PM
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FA hits in the 400s consistently if you have the axe bonus, + 80str, + the 10 str when your that race...maybe your problem is that your attacking players in RD gear with FA?

332-510 with FA 190 STR 110 Axes...that is pretty powerful if you ask me...
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Swifty
post Mar 9 2009, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE(Birnical @ Mar 9 2009, 11:00 PM) *
FA hits in the 400s consistently if you have the axe bonus, + 80str, + the 10 str when your that race...maybe your problem is that your attacking players in RD gear with FA?

332-510 with FA 190 STR 110 Axes...that is pretty powerful if you ask me...


If FA is sooo powerful please tell me why they are hardly used.

And your assuming that every player in the game is a level 100 tundrian with bk legs and rune guants. Yeah, because that isnt an assholish assumption.
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KaaLimaTo
post Mar 10 2009, 12:08 AM
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Nerf poison axe to 40-80 base dmg
Nerf Ice Sword to 40-85 base dmg
Buff Air Axe to 55-100 base dmg
Buff Fire Axe to 70-110 base dmg
Buff Rune sword to 150-250 base dmg
Buff Sword Of Affliction to 45-95 base dmg
Buff Hammer Of Flames to 75-140 base dmg
Buff Sceptre Of Orcus to 90-160 base dmg
Buff Staff Of Impariality to 80-140 base dmg
Buff Rune Staff to 100-200 base dmg
Buff Blood Trident to 60-125 base dmg



Thats my opinion.
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Swifty
post Mar 10 2009, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE(KaaLimaTo @ Mar 10 2009, 12:08 AM) *
Nerf poison axe to 40-80 base dmg No. Already sucks
Nerf Ice Sword to 40-85 base dmg Honestly don't give a ****, just helps me, but bad idea
Buff Air Axe to 55-100 base dmg Yes
Buff Fire Axe to 70-110 base dmg Yes
Buff Rune sword to 150-250 base dmg Yes, maybe even higher minimum end
Buff Sword Of Affliction to 45-95 base dmg Yes + Fix Proc Dmg
Buff Hammer Of Flames to 75-140 base dmg Sure
Buff Sceptre Of Orcus to 90-160 base dmg Sure
Buff Staff Of Impariality to 80-140 base dmg Sure
Buff Rune Staff to 100-200 base dmg Higher Max End.
Buff Blood Trident to 60-125 base dmg That just repeats SOD. Give it that and 30 Con

Thats my opinion.



Fixed

EDIT: Birnical pointed out people would ***** that Rset is too strong.

Uhm.. shouldn't you jump for joy that someones using a rset as its an opportunity to loot it? I've never bitched at a rset being used.
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Birnical
post Mar 10 2009, 02:29 AM
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TTA, Can you look at all the poison weapons? poison blade, poison axe, poison trident, poison mace, poison triple headed mace, and there is one more I think., make them even please.
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KaaLimaTo
post Mar 10 2009, 04:00 AM
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QUOTE(Birnical @ Mar 10 2009, 02:29 AM) *
TTA, Can you look at all the poison weapons? poison blade, poison axe, poison trident, poison mace, poison triple headed mace, and there is one more I think., make them even please.

Make them even?

PB is sold in josody for 90k

PA is dropped by golem by chance of <0.05 I think
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KaaLimaTo
post Mar 10 2009, 04:01 AM
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QUOTE(Swifty @ Mar 10 2009, 12:47 AM) *
QUOTE(KaaLimaTo @ Mar 10 2009, 12:08 AM) *
Nerf poison axe to 40-80 base dmg No. Already sucks
Nerf Ice Sword to 40-85 base dmg Honestly don't give a ****, just helps me, but bad idea
Buff Air Axe to 55-100 base dmg Yes
Buff Fire Axe to 70-110 base dmg Yes
Buff Rune sword to 150-250 base dmg Yes, maybe even higher minimum end
Buff Sword Of Affliction to 45-95 base dmg Yes + Fix Proc Dmg
Buff Hammer Of Flames to 75-140 base dmg Sure
Buff Sceptre Of Orcus to 90-160 base dmg Sure
Buff Staff Of Impariality to 80-140 base dmg Sure
Buff Rune Staff to 100-200 base dmg Higher Max End.
Buff Blood Trident to 60-125 base dmg That just repeats SOD. Give it that and 30 Con

Thats my opinion.



Fixed

EDIT: Birnical pointed out people would ***** that Rset is too strong.

Uhm.. shouldn't you jump for joy that someones using a rset as its an opportunity to loot it? I've never bitched at a rset being used.

You fixed my opinion? :)

Umm, I do think that poison axe is too good comparing how easy it is to get.

If you nerf Icer, a sword that is as rare as HoS, it will become useless in PvP but stay useful hunting hell.

Maybe after that, you could introduce a new cold dmg weapon, Idk which class, which would do cold damage, be more rare and hit more.
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Birnical
post Mar 10 2009, 04:01 AM
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QUOTE(KaaLimaTo @ Mar 10 2009, 12:00 PM) *
QUOTE(Birnical @ Mar 10 2009, 02:29 AM) *
TTA, Can you look at all the poison weapons? poison blade, poison axe, poison trident, poison mace, poison triple headed mace, and there is one more I think., make them even please.

Make them even?

PB is sold in josody for 90k

PA is dropped by golem by chance of <0.05 I think


yeah golems are really tough...

so +1 axe is better then +1 sword?
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KaaLimaTo
post Mar 10 2009, 04:04 AM
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QUOTE(Birnical @ Mar 10 2009, 04:01 AM) *
QUOTE(KaaLimaTo @ Mar 10 2009, 12:00 PM) *
QUOTE(Birnical @ Mar 10 2009, 02:29 AM) *
TTA, Can you look at all the poison weapons? poison blade, poison axe, poison trident, poison mace, poison triple headed mace, and there is one more I think., make them even please.

Make them even?

PB is sold in josody for 90k

PA is dropped by golem by chance of <0.05 I think


yeah golems are really tough...

so +1 axe is better then +1 sword?

No matter how many examples or excuses you pull out, PA is way harder to obtain than PB.
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iplaydransik
post Mar 10 2009, 04:04 AM
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Don't ruin the game even more by changing the weapon damages, if you want different weapon damages just add new weapons!
We can live with the resistances changes but don't turn this game into AE please...
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